So... Eldar

This past weekend I played Black Legion against my buddies Iyanden Eldar.  I had 9 Cultists alive at the end of turn 5.  It was sort of an eye opening experience as it was the first real 6th edition codex I was playing against.  My opponent's first love is Space Wolves.  I can understand that, that was my first real attempt at collecting an army... well actualy that was 13th Co., but I digress.  Points was set at about 1860, if you're a couple over or under it doesn't really matter to us.  For myself, it was a lot of firsts for me in this game...

First time using a named character - Abaddon

First time using a Land Raider

First time running Chosen, and more than one unit

First time using a bare bones Cultist squad

First time not running my AC Havocs

First time using a supplement

and... it was the second time for me running Obliterators.

My buddy was using a 10 strong unit of WG with Axes/Shields, 5 WG with D-guns, 2 WLs, a WK (also the Warlord), 10 Rangers with sniper rifles, 2 x 3 Jet Bikes with a Shuriken Cannon, 1 Crimson Hunter Exarch, and three Spirit Seers.

I got blasted and torn asunder.  It was great and humbling at the same time and I found out first hand Eldar are little nuts.

Now my friend was making fun of me a little as he said " Thats the smallest list I've seen you make...".  Well he was right about that.  Abby, Lvl 3 Sorc with Last Memory, 6 Chosen with 5 Plasma Pistols; a Power Sword and a Meltagun... in a Land Raider.  6 Chosen with 4 Plasma Guns in a Rhino, Heldrake with Bale, and 3 Oblits with MoN.  Ally in a Slaanesh Lord with Spinshiver Blade and jump pack, 10 Cultists, and 5 MoS Raptors.  So there was some decent CC and they had a good ride to get them there, some quality shots with all the plasma, a backfield unit to cower in fear, a dragon, some lumbering guns, and a fast slicing unit.

It was too slow, and lacked bodies.  Which, I knew was going to happen because a Black Legion army is going to be expensive.  But it was fun to try out.  

I was surprised by the Toughness values of some of those Eldar constructs, and the Strength of the weapons.  I don't buy all the codices anymore because I don't have the money to, so I had a few surprises to deal with.  Truth is, I was just outclassed.  Now, I can be like every other CSM whiner and jump ship to the new hotness of the Space Marine 'dex.  To be honest I would use the maligned Black Templar rules... JUST to get at their challenge mechanics.  Gods, that seems like such a simple solution to Chaos' Champion rule... some tools to make your unit Champions stand a chance?  Yes please!  But this isn't going down that particular rabbit hole. (The entire state of Chaos Hate is starting to get out of control, it's pretty telling when they have a stickied thread over on B&C for just that, so the rest of the Chaos Ascendant forum isn't getting clogged with hate posts.) No, Chaos is for me thanks... I've loved the fluff and rules since I've read them so long ago.  No, this is about going back to some basics for the rematch for this coming Saturday, the 9/21/2013. Sorry to report that the rematch didn't happen, I got a cold from school or my child brought it home.  I know that doesn't sound bad, but my buddy has an auto-immune disease AND his girlfriends mother is visiting until the end of the month.  How about we not play Papa Nurgle, or one of his chosen?

So what does that mean exactly?  More shots!  I had some high quality shots, but lacked the volume of fire to systematically destroy (or at the very least cripple) a unit per Shooting Phase effectively.  When the Chaos 'dex first hit I was using 5 AC Havocs with a pair of AC/ML Helbrutes that would shuffle around the Havocs to extend the range here and there from a central fire base.  14 strength 7 shots with 2 more at strength 8 and all at BS 4.  Now put that behind an aegis and there's my fire base... shooty, durable, and setting up some lane denial.

I still think that the Abby/Sorc/Chosen in LR is good, but it needs tweaked.  By that I mean the Chosen need MoK and the Icon of Wrath.  Weight of attacks, for the Chosen that's 2,+1 for kit, + 2 for the charge off the MoK, at STR 5... make it a 7 strong unit and that's 35 attacks just from the Chosen, to force more armor saves.  More saves = higher chance of failure.  Then add a Demon Weapon, hell... add 2, swap out the Sorc with a Khorne Lord with AoBF or Kharn, and you have yourself a very choppy unit with 3 characters to challenge as you wish.  With re-rolling the Charge out of a Land Raider, it will be a fire magnet unit, but what to support it with?  Now top that off with a 10 man Cultist unit and there's the primary detachment.  It's an expensive detachment as well as all that is 1150 points, or just 1025 if I don't make this a Black Legion primary.

Now what else to take?  Either a BL or Demons secondary could do it to at least try and get some synergy with some units.  I have also seen some great ideas out in the blogosphere using Orks as mutants and it sort of rekindles that Lost and the Damned vibe from the Eye of Terror 'dex.  Lots of real cheap bodies cloggin' yuz gunz, and all tying up your untis and what not.  Decisions, decsions... damn ally matrix.  Anyway.  Really, it's just a matter of what do I want to take...  20 Horrors with a Lvl 3 Herald, loci, and Portal Glyph?  3 Exalted Seeker Chariots for a single Heavy slot?  A Nurgle Soulgrinder?  A flying DP with Eternal Warrior and Spineshiver Blade?  A unit of Nurgle Oblits?  The blessing, and curse, of allies... makes it hard to choose!

I think if I was going for speed it would be a Slaanesh Herald on a Seeker with Loci of Grace and Portal Glyph, maybe Grimoire.  10 Seekers to accompany the Herald, 10 Plaguebearers (maybe Horrors for the shooting), and a Seeker Cavalcade made out of Exalted Seeker Chariots.  The chariots alone are scary at 4 HP each with rending HoW attacks, never mind the Move through Cover cavalry with +6 inches on the run move.

A flying DP with Eternal Warrior... ah, the good 'ol days.  Maybe MoK and a Spineshiver Blade to trick him out.  A fast moving monster, shoot that or the LR...  hmmmmm.  Maybe a unit of Bikes, or Spawn, or a Heldrake, any of those would do really.  Maybe even run a DP with a Spawn shield?  Lvl 3 Sorc with jumpack (or bike), spell familiar, Last Memeory and the Hand of Darkness?  Either another unit of AC Havocs... more than likely... or a unit of Nurgle marked Oblits.  Oh, and either ally list can take a Decimator as it is an elites choice for either CSM or Demons.  *Fun Fact -  Since Abby is an IC and is considered to have all 4 marks, you can buy the Decimator any mark you want.*  A MoK, Rampaging death machine?... ummm, yeah.  Or MoN to give it It Will Not Die, to make it REALLY annoying.

As you can see I have a lot ideas of how to finish this list off.  The problem is trying to fit what I think would work together in a 2000 point list.  That will be the next game size (I think) and will allow me to crank some things around and get a feel for it.  I have the core pretty much thought out, now what about the details?

Chris

2nd Battle with Chaos

So this battle went better, and it was a closer game overall... after consolidating my cultist unit back onto an objective I won the game.  If I didn't do that, I would have lost the game.  I was getting carried away again and starting to forget the objectives... maybe Khorne is gnawing at my soul after all.

This list had multiple threats with fast units and hard hitting long range support.  I ran the list from the last post here, and at 1500 points you start to get an idea of what the Chaos 'Dex is capable of.  Then next gameday is a swap day, I'm getting most of my buddies Chaos stuff and he's getting a few boxes of mine that are just sitting around and collecting dust.  Above all else it felt good, and wasn't frustrating like trying to shoehorn my current models into a current 'Dex when they were designed for the old one.

Some things learned...

Cultists with a Dark Apostle (DA) are amazing, a DA doesn't need anything beyond the Mark of Tzeentch, Spawn are highly annoying (both for myself and my opponent), Bikers are cool but how about more spawn?, auto-cannon Havocs put out a punishing number of shots, AP doesn't have to be an issue if you're putting out enough shots/hits in CC, 'Brutes are good mobile gun platforms, and giving champs and ICs Gift is a great way to start the battle. 2+ save on a Jugger Lord before the battle starts (that was a lucky roll)? Yes please.

Apostle idea stolen inspired by Danny Cyanide over at Bolter & Chainsword

Suffice it to say, I am loving the idea of a horde Chaos Space Marine army.  So much so I just got a lot off of eBay that comprised of 12 chosen, a lord, 10 auto-gun cultists, 10 auto-pistol &  ccw cultists, and a Hellbrute... all from the Dark Vengeance (DV) set. In addition, this lot also contained 5 oop metal Possessed, a Chaos Sorc, 3 bikes (still in boxes), 13 Berserkers, and a spawn. All of that for $40 less than a CSM battleforce.  Add to that my own DV set of Chaos, and that I traded all my Dark Angel models for my buddies Chaos models out of his DV set.  For even further chaos madness, remember that I still have 2 10 man squads of CSM, a 10 man Berserker squad, 5 Termies, a Termie lord, 2 auto/las Predators, 2 converted Oblits, 24 lesser demons (converted), a greater demon (also converted), and I believe a metric ton of spare bits.  I might have just crossed the 3000 point barrier.

Quick, we need 20 more bodies stat!!

Cultists with flamers, converted from Empire Flagellants 

I will have A LOT of painting to do but I also have been considering switching the army to... Black Legion. So that might help with the speed of painting, although with how fast I paint normally, maybe not.  Black, gold, and silver for the general scheme with red accents.  Plus I can use the scheme I developed for my mutants in my now defunct Lost and the Damned army for my cultists, which was black, brown, and silver.  A dark cloud of bodies marching across the field, sowing death and destruction for the Gods by any means necessary.  Painting the force Black Legion will also give me a nice contrast to painting my Tyrainds.  So painting either force shouldn't get to old and at the very least give me the opportunity to bounce back and forth between them when one does get stale from painting.

Some of this is me trying to embrace the new 'Dex to its fullest, by using as many marks and/or icons as possible and not being restrictive in my list building anymore.  Some of this is also feeling like there is no real benefit to running an undivided force without specific marks or icons.  That the aspect of chaos undivided now is to have at least one mark per god in your army... and that is simply not the how I see the Word Bearers.

Simple 'Brute conversion with auto-cannon and missile launcher.

The next game is settled at 1850 points.  My buddy is running 'Wolves so there is a lot that can bring the hurt in his list.  That's ok... like Tyler says "I want you to hit me as hard as you can..."

It will be an interesting battle, especially since I want to bring demons into the mix.  Demonettes to be specific, as of now Slaanesh is the only mark/icon I'm not running so he's up next.  I haven't had a chance to use the Allies Chart yet and the whole prospect sounds exciting.  Deepstriking demons into his line will only add more pressure than I'm already applying.  Tweak some points to make sure I can break open a Land Raider and we have a winner.  Maybe :-)  Next post will deal with the "improved" list and how it performed.

Chris

1st battle with Chaos

So a few weekends ago I had my first battle with the new Chaos 'Dex.  By the end of turn 5, I had an Obliterator and a Rhino left.  I got wasted!  But there a few caveats to this battle...

- It was only 1,000 points

- I was running what I had already built, and basing the points cost on current load outs 

- I was also playing way more aggressively than I would normally (which is probably what cost me the battle)... I didn't really care about the objectives I wanted to see how my current army had changed.

The list was as follows...

A Lord with Termie Armor, combi-plasma, VoTLW, and The Black Mace attached to 5 Terminators with power axes, a heavy flamer, and VoTLW.

10 Marines, MoK, flamer x 2, power sword on the champ, Rhino with Havoc Launcher

10 Marines, MoN, plasma guns x 2, Rhino with Havoc Launcher

2 Spawn with MoN

2 Oblits with MoN

-------------------------------------------

1001 points total 

Now, contrasting this with my Nids, I'm on a new learning curve again.  I mean, I'm actually using vehicles where before I just popping them open.  Before I was running 4-5 T6 Monstrous Creatures(MCs), another 3-6 T6 Hive Guard, 20 Gants, and 3-6 Psykers with Biomancy.  The last version of my Nid list was really shooty and A LOT of T6 critters.  It was hard for my buddy to kill any of them, especially buffed up from Biomancy.  Add the ability to spawn more troops, what's there not to love?

Wow, Chaos has nothing like that.  I got spoiled.  Some sticking points from my first battle.  T5 Chaos Space Marines(CSM) are durable, but not awesome.  CSMs with the Mark of Khorne put out a punishing amount of attacks.  Havoc Launchers on Rhinos aren't worth the points.  Rhinos moving Flat Out are great.  Terminators need a Land Raider to be mobile on the battlefield, Deep Striking and standing there wastes time.  Rolling on the Boon Table is fun, and scary, but having Gift would've helped to buff some characters before the battle started.  One thing that really struck me was the speed of the Spawn, damn are they fast.

So that's that where I kinda want to go, a speedy list... well at least better mobility.  A rough list I'm thinking about is...

Dark Apostle with Mark of Tzeentch (MoT[3++]), the Brand, and Gift.  He'll be "shepherding" 20 Cultists with 2 flamers and another 20 Cultists with Autoguns and 2 flamers

A Lord with Mark of Khorne (MoK), Axe of Blind Fury, Gift, and riding a Jugger.  He's joined by 5 bikes with MoK, Icon of Wrath, Meltagun, and Gift on the champ

10 CSM with MoK, 2 Flamers, Icon of Wrath, Gift on the champ, and a Rhino

Dread with Reaper and Missile Launcher
Dread with Reaper and Missile Launcher

5 Havocs with Autocannons
5 Havocs with Autocannons

3 Spawn with Mark of Nurgle
----------------------------------------------------------

1498 points with a model count of 72.  4 models with Gift rolls.  20 S7 shots and 2 S8 shots per turn at long range.  7 template weapons, one of which is Torrent and AP 3.  Not bad.  A touch light on the antitank.  It might be worth it to drop the Spawn and put some more melta into the list, or at least Missile Launchers... some type of S8 weapon.  But if I drop the Spawn then I lose my screen for the bikes and Lord.  Maybe squeeze some points out and replace the flamers in the CSM squad with meltaguns?

One thing that I noticed from the previous list was there was no target saturation.  I simply didn't have enough threats on the board, or I just didn't have anything my opponent read as  threatening.  This new list feels like I have enough threats to achieve that and some of those threats are FAST.  The idea is that my opponent wont be able to focus on the Lord unit, or the Dark Apostle blob, the Spawn, the CSMs, the Dreads, or the Havocs without something either getting to his line or hammering his line with firepower.

My regular gaming buddy and I usually play anywhere from 1500 to 1850 in points, with a good amount of them at 1750.  We have yet to play a 2000 point game, we are just too slow.  But now I'm kinda getting excited by having vehicles... or even Allies for that matter.  You know... the stuff I didn't have to worry about too much with my Nids.  Next game is this Saturday(11/24), I'll keep you posted with what worked and what was an utter failure.

Chris

Well then...

Codex: Chaos Space Marines has hit and there was an overwhelming... silence?  Don't get me wrong, I have seen all sorts of things from "OMG 'tis da bestes!!1! to "Meh".  Which makes me think... did Mr. Kelly actually get it wrong?  Could it be the ball was dropped?  That the real thing didn't live up to the hype at all?  Maybe.  It could also be that there were SO MANY rumors going around that maybe we suspended all disbelief of any type of failure...

Screw it.  It's here now and no use crying over what it could've/should've been.  Really?  We have been living with what will now forever be known as "The Gav 'Dex", it will live on long afterwards much like 3.5 did only without the nostalgia and warm fuzzy feelings.  Does the current codex get he "just right" stamp?  It's not too cold like the Gav 'Dex, but it also isn't too hot like the Haines(3.5) 'Dex either.

There are blogs aplenty that have done their unit by unit breakdown, I am not going to do that.  I am greedy with my time and only really care about how this affects my Word Bearers, and how this might change them (but ultimately how does it change my CURRENT models... ) or turn me off entirely to work solely on my 'Nids.  Chaos, it seems, is indeed fickle.

The HQs I have played around with have always been counts as Dark Apostles in the form of Lords, and/or Sorcerers... sometimes in Termie armor, sometimes with an Personal Icon, and sometimes as a vessel for a Greater Demon.  Now I actually have a Dark Apostle to use and, so far, he's kind of a mixed bag for me.  The design standpoint of Chaos right now seems to be Marks of Chaos everywhere, and to get a truly Undivided force you would have to take at least one marked unit from each power.  My inner fluff bunny is dying as I type.

That aside, a Dark Apostle with the Mark of Tzeentch is going to be a tough nut to crack with a 3+/3++ save.  Now the load-out has varied.  The Black Mace, maybe The Brand of Skalathrax, or nothing... but what about The Dimensional Key?  You don't lose any weapons taking the Key, and all friendly units don't scatter after it's activated.  Now, depending on how the 'Dex gets FAQed (and it will need it) this can become the new Demon Bomb if "friendly" includes allied Demons AND the Key works table wide.  At the moment it can be read as an additional effect of the Key's 12" aura or table wide.  But, how to get him into close combat as quickly as possible to activate the Key as fast as possible is the trick... put him with 4 Termies in a Land Raider? 9 Possessed in a Land Raider from heavy support?  With no option for a bike or wings he's kinda stuck hitching a ride with someone else and a Land Raider seems like the most reliable way to get him there.  He could have at least had the option for a demonic steed, a la Jarulek on a Disk.  So, a basic load-out I would do would be as follows...

Dark Apostle with 

Mark of Tzeentch

Gift of Mutation

The Dimensional Key

------------------

155 pts

Not bad, but if I can turn him in to a table wide Icon/Teleport homer that allied demons can use then it's worth it.

My Troops choices have always been the basic Chaos Space Marine, again Undivided here.  Last 'Dex I was fielding 2 squads of 10 with either Plasma Guns or Flamers, with a Power Fist champ, Icon of Chaos Glory, in a Rhino with a Havoc Launcher.  That clocks in at ~275ish points.  But, you got an all-comer unit with a 3+ save, S8 can opener, and a moving wall.  The unit as a whole was tough and less likely to shift because of the Icon, Morale re-rolls are awesome, and I will miss them.  The Icon also served as a delivery system for my other Troops, Summoned Lesser Demons, which I ran in 3 squads of 8 and they were stupid cheap for what you got.  A marine stat line, with a built in invulnerable save, AND they could assault when they showed up.  A rare, and powerful ability these days in 6th and I can see Ymgarls losing this as well when Nids get their turn.

So how does a basic CSM squad cost with a similar load-out today?

9 CSM + Champ

2 Plasma Guns

Gift of Mutation

----The total to this point is 180----

If I wanted to keep this unit really cheap, I would just add a power fist to the champ and footslog them at 205 points.  

Chaos Stars on Tumblr

Now where it gets interesting is whether you take an Icon of Vengeance, and make the unit Fearless... which Fearless in 6th is great, just ask any Nid player OR you give them Veterans of the Long War (VotLW) which gives them Hatred(Space Marines).  Going with the former is about 15 points more expensive than the latter.  Then add a Rhino with a Havoc Launcher and you get a range of 237 - 252 points that gives you lots of mobile firepower, with a decent save.  

I didn't take the close combat weapons for the squad or a power fist for the champ.  I'm trying to keep the unit on the cheap(er) side and both those options would add another 43 points to the unit.  I would rather spend those points on something else.  This, I think, is the downside of the new 'Dex.  Making sure that you have your Swiss Army unit is expensive with so many options to choose.  So just for the requisite 1 HQ and 2 Troops I am spending 629 points, ~1/3 of an 1850 list, or 565 without the Rhinos... which, by the way, feels a hell of a lot better.

So this has been a rough breakdown of the current Chaos 'Dex with the models I already own, and how those models have changed in their roles.  If I have to redo a good portion of my army I won't be terribly happy about it.  Getting some games in will definitely help me make up my mind, but Hive Guard have spoiled me something fierce.

Meanwhile...

Ahhh....

Done with grad school, hired right after graduation, a regular gaming/modeling night with a good friend... life is good.  As 6th edition has hit, I have to say... I am impressed, however I think that only thing that needs tweaking is how many times you can actually Look Out Sir! in a unit.  Say cap it a 5-8 times from any one damage source... of course placing your models to not shoot at the character will help, but I'm thinking more with character units. But anyway...

My Tyranids are doing fine.  Unfotunately they are not going to have a natualistic color scheme like I thought.  Nope.  Not at all.  Doing test paint schemes for my 'Nids I found myself going with brighter colors and a quicker painting style than I would normally do.  I was trying to force myself to not paint Marines, and finally had a break through and I am happy with the results.

When I had started my 'Nids, I was going for an army that I didn't want to convert.  All the models would be out of the box, assembled, and painted.  Boy, was I wrong about that.  What prompted some of the conversions I was doing was GW's price hike this year.  I want... Hive Guard, Zoans, Lictors, yadda, yadda, BUT I do not feel like paying the amount GW is asking for with these models.  Then I found the Tyranid Warrior chassis and all the great things you can do with it.  Like make Hive Guard, Zoans, and Lictors.

With school getting ready to start, my time (right now) is more focused there.  However in the coming weeks I'll have more posts about my 'Nids... army lists, painting, and converting.  Basically all the things I have been doing over the summer and then some.

It feels good to be back, and I'm looking forward to talking to you.

Chris

So it begins...

Hey all,

I have been attempting to get this army completed for a while now. I feel one of the best ways to achieve this goal is to have support from the community at large so I started this blog.

As of right now, I'm waiting on one order of bits to come in, a little glue later, and the build will be done.

The army is as follows...

Chaos Lord, Termie Armor, DW, Combi-Plas

Chaos Lord, Wings, Icon, Power Weapon, Melta bombs

Greater Demon

10 Chaos Marines /w A.Champ +2 Meltas, PF, IoCG, Rhino

10 Chaos Marines /w A.Champ +2 Meltas, PF, IoCG, Rhino

8 Lesser Demons

8 Lesser Demons

8 Lesser Demons

5 Terminators, Heavy Flamer, ChainFist, 4 Combi-Plas, attached to the Termie Lord

1 Dreadnaught, TL H.Bolter

1 Dreadnaught, extra CCW

2 Obliterators

1 Predator, AC turret, Las Sponsons, Havoc Launcher

1 Predator, AC turret, Las Sponsons, Havoc Launcher

All this comes to 2000 pts., or dang close... I don't have my list right in front of me, and like I said everything is almost built. So far for painting, I have a test mini done, one of the AC's, and am actually quite pleased with him. Pictures will follow in the next few days, once I locate my now lost again camera. I'm looking forward to talking with you all, and take care.

Grim